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February 25, 2009

Comments

Jen

I've got to go roast a chicken now. I won't have time to monitor any fights that might break out here, so I'm closing comments.

I'm fascinated how each of you have interpreted this post. We really do bring our own experiences into everything we read, don't we?

I think when/if you guys read the new book, you'll better understand my reaction. But for now, I thank all of you for your comments and I'll absolutely consider them.

Aurora

Loved it! Who cares if you posted the letter, what exactly did this woman expect writing to a writer?? Especially one like you, its not like you write fiction or something! And obviously she's still pretty hung up about it or she wouldn't have taken the time to write you. What was your response supposed to b

mia

Not a big fan of posting this woman's note. It's her feeling and memory of that time. Be gracious not judgemental. Your better than that, at least I think so.

Parsing Nonsense

Don't feel bad or agonize over anyone you may have impacted. That chick is deriving way too much meaning from being that poor-me-everyone-hates-me picked-on person. She needs to let it go.

You were 13. We're all jerks at 13. It's kind of a job requirement.

Faye

I'm coming from the perspective of being the unpopular girl. It's not that I was hated in high school, but I was 5 foot 9, beanpole-skinny (back then it wasn't cool), and 100% into studying and getting A's. When you consider that my fun hobbies were being class treasurer, tutoring people for the SATs (I took them in 10th grade on the advanced track), heading the Young Republicans club, and being head of drama club, it may not surprise you to learn that I was not quite in with the cool (or semi-cool) crowd.

Most people just ignored me. Some were downright cruel. And a lot of these people live in the same community as me today.

Fast-forward to the present. I may not be cool, but I'm fairly attractive, have a great, successful career, a wonderful marriage, and some great like-minded friends. Last spring was my 10th high school reunion, and a friend called me to say she was going. She, like me, was part of the nerd squad. Two breast implants and a lot of bleaching/tanning later, she looks quite different. She wanted to go, she said, so she could show everyone how wrong they were about her. She encouraged me to do the same. I said no; she said why not, are you scared? And I said no. . . I just don't feel like going. I don't care what those people think of me. I'm happy with who I am today, and that's all that counts.

And I realized I really meant it. So the point I'm trying to make with this rambling? Is that at some point, you just have to GET OVER the past. Especially if the person didn't do anything too terrible (which must be the case or you would have remembered it).

And Jen? Think how many people you make happy with your beautiful snarky books :). That's got to balance the karma somehow.

Lizzie

Although I realize that she put you on the defensive right from the jump, giving that her initial note to you had a few mild digs in it, but I am inclined to agree with Melissa and particularly Abby's comments below. She obviously doesnt stew over this everyday because if she was that type of person she would have climbed a bell tower and started picking off student nurses long ago. The fact that she remembers a negative experience from when she was 13 when your name was mentioned to her doesnt make her a loser, and like Abby said, you may not have been so nice back then, but the fact that you insinuated that she was a loser because you didnt remember her, doesnt go very far in saying you are any nicer now.

Wynne

Poppy, you need to brush up on your math skills. 41-19=22. 22 is not that young to have a child. And why is that even an issue? So the woman having a child at 22 gives you further ammunition to bash her for having been hurt by Jen in the past? I don't get it. I agree with the minority -- it was a tacky, petty thing for Jen to post a private note for all to ridicule and judge. Boo!

Sweet Herald

Entries like this make me love your blog. You just spill it. Doesn't matter how you might be judged, it's your thoughts and you're sharing them dammit.
As far as your "Ann Veal" if it is still bothering you, inquire further about it. Maybe she can help refresh your memory.

mistyd

Ok seriously mom-lady, you finally got it in after 20 yrs of resentment and pent up anger. Did your final victory at getting the final jab in feel as good as you imagined it for 20 yrs? This is like George Costanza with his too-late comebacks.

If this had happened to me it would have peaked my curiosity to how this person could have changed from the bully I remembered and I would have wanted to read the book. Even if it only validated my feelings I may have mentioned it to my friends or daughter.. I'd never have retaliated by sending an email about it. That's some serious anger.

Kara

I only graduated 9 years ago, and I'm over all of it. The mean kids. The dorky kids. The smart kids. It's whatever.

However, after my 10-year-reunion next year, the grudges *could* be back on. ;)

class factotum

I have let go of being slighted by the cool girls in high school, even though they were just as aloof to me at our 20-year reunion (you can't say "hi" back to someone in the bathroom, bitches?), but I remembered the girl I was mean to and made a point of apologizing to her at the reunion because I felt so bad about it. She was very gracious and told me she didn't remember a thing. There's nothing wrong with apologizing for hurting someone's feelings, even if you didn't do it intentionally. High school is not an easy time.

Abby

I agree with Melissa below me, in that posting this note seems pretty petty. There are people from my middle school that I still despise (I'm 25) and while I doubt I'd spend the time and energy writing them a letter, I would neither buy a book they authored nor friend request them on Facebook. 30 years is a long time to hold that strong of a grudge but if she saw you that you were posting this note on your website to be mocked by all your fans I doubt she would think you WERE a different person now than you were at 13.

Bitta N Single

That's funny but sooo sad. Because.. in reality, grudges never die. I was picked on in 6th, 7th and 8th grade by some stupid girls who threatened to kick my ass. Yes - kick my ass.. like girls using big ass rings to throw punches, pulling hair, and pinching ....

To this day, I harbor deep hatred for them. That said, I don't obsess over it as this girl somehow did towards you. To be honest, she's probably just irked that you're successful and she's a nobody with a daughter who worships you. Plus - how mean could you have been? Not like you physically hurt them - you were probably just stand-off ish or saying mean things as a result of your lack of self esteem. Did you cigarette burn her? Cuz I swear - these girls woulda done that to me had they successfully kicked my ass. There is indeed a ghetto girl inside this girl despite being a high professional in Corporate America now... grrrrr.

Can't wait to read your new book!!!!

JennF

"wedging myself into a pair of size five Jordache jeans"

I had a pair of needle nose pliers in my drawer for pulling up the zipper... tell me I'm not the only one to have done this....

LyndaMR

Having both done things mean (usually driven by insecurity -- like THAT doesn't describe all teenagers) and had mean things done to me, more of the latter than the former, I can say that I don't think I'd go out of my way to contact a former classmate to dis them. But the pain would probably still be there. Probably this woman didn't think and calm down before she acted on the hurt feelings from those days. That said, just because you don't remember her, doesn't mean that you weren't cruel. Cruelty happens, especially in high school. It probably hurt her again that you don't remember someone who she feels was deliberately targeted by you. If an apology would help her, how would it hurt you? You'd be the bigger person.

So -- gotta call you out on the blind-sighted thing. Really, Jen? Don't you mean blind-sided? I expect better from a twittering, blogging author -- even you! ;-)

Can't wait to see you in Houston -- am bringing as many friends as I can rope into it! Gotta get them started on your books. I've sent them out to friends who also loved them.

Betsy

Ok so this is almost totally unrelated but your little blog made me have a "THAT"S WHO SHE IS!!!" moment. I was watching House (best show ever! by the way) and there was a mom on it and I kept saying the whole time "WHO THE HELL IS SHE!!! I KNOW I KNOW HER!!! BUT FROM WHERE?!?!?" And it turns out that she was one of the popular girls in Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion.

Now granted that I'm only 24 and can't really say that I feel the same way about adding people that I went to high school with on Facebook is my favorite thing. In fact I don't add people b/c I don't want to be the only one that isn't married or on their 3rd kid.

Krissy

I think there are two sides to this, I've been on both. I know I hurt people in high school, mostly unintentionally because I definitely wasn't a Mean Girl-type of person. I think most of us go through high school just trying to survive. I think of my time in middle and high school as a foggy period where I didn't know who I was therefore I didn't really know how to treat others.

I've also been the person hurt, but really? That woman needs to take a breath, say a prayer, do some yoga or something and then just let it go. I feel bad that she's held onto something so negative for so long. I wonder how that's affected her. While you might have done something to hurt her over twenty years ago it was HER choice to keep holding onto it, so she's really the one hurting herself here. You have no control of how others act or feel, you control yourself and your feelings--not anyone else's.

Wow. That got slightly new age-y. Sorry. But I think it's true. She's the one in control--she's the only one who can heal the scar. Maybe if you wanted to apologize though you could send her some of your famous cupcakes? Just a thought.

Melissa

Thank goodness you have so many people to blow smoke up your ass and tell you that this woman is a "bitter bitch," "loser mommy" and "needs to get a life." I'm a big fan of the books and blog and will continue to be, but to post this letter that this woman wrote you, insinuate that she was not important enough to remember and then have all of these people speak this way about her? She isn't a stalker and she obviously does not think about this every waking hour, she wrote one frickin note about it. I am obviously in the minority by thinking/saying this, but that is fine with me.

Emma

Jen, I love your stuff, but this just made me feel sorry for this woman. On the off chance that you really did hurt this person, I think it was a little harsh to post her note and then criticize her. I can't really relate, in highschool I was nice and people were nice to me, but I can imagine that some people would take that kind of thing harder than others. I guess what I mean is you could be the bigger person here, regardless of if she needs to let it go or not (which she totally does). Also, it's possible that her 'Good luck with your diet' comment might have been totally sincere.

BUT, I love the AD reference. I am still upset about that show being cancelled.

Phyllis

Two observations to add to the 91 others: 1) she must not have much of a life if she hadn't already discovered your wonderful books all by herself :-). 2) You should be the bigger person (metaphorically speaking, of course) and apologize. Just to be nice.

Maureen

Dude, EVERYONE has some scar from high school. Usually hidden away beneath their normal-seeming exterior.

And Bible Camp? She's SO going all Old Testament on you with the "eye for an eye" crap.

Melanie

Wow. I haven't even hit my 10 year reunion and I've totally gotten over that whole "she was a bitch in high school" thing. I wasn't rushing to make it to my five-year reunion because I pretty much talk to everyone from high school that I'm interested in talking to, but I will be happy to attend my 10 year reunion because it will be fun to see where people end up once they've established themselves a little more.

Jen in the western burbs

Oh Jimmy Baio, how could I forget you! I picked you instead of Scott because you were the underdog--no one to compete with for your affection! But, I also liked Leif Garrett and he turned out to be a heroin addict LOL I made horrible tiger-beat choices

Jenni

Jen,

This post brings back so many memories from my past. I lived in a small town in NM and was beat up pretty much every day until I was 14. Then I moved to Las Vegas. No one knew me. No one knew how my heart had been broken and how afraid I was every time we had to go back to my hometown. I wanted to throw up every time we entered the city limits.

I became one of the girls in high school that loved everyone regardless of what they looked like or what kind of car they drove. I did dance, theatre, choir, cross country, I hung out in the library just because, I went to football games, was nominated for prom queen and was voted "most likely to become famous" my senior year. No one ever knew my past and how much I hated it. That was 5 years ago and almost 10 since I moved away from my home town.

Last May my fiance` and I took a trip back to my hometown for my cousins HS graduation. The entire time I was there, not once did I see (or at least recognize any of the girls who had hurt me) until the last day we were there and putting gas in the car to leave. The gas station attendant just so happened to be a girl who beat me up so badly that I wasn't able to move. She left me in the snow, in a ditch to be found by my brother who was walking home from school and heard me crying. He carried my then 70lb body home until my mom could take me to the hospital.

At first, I didnt know what to say because SHE recognized ME. Before I could say anything, she was out from behind the counter hugging me and telling me that she had heard how well I was doing and that she was sorry from the bottom of her heart for what she had done.

Needless to say, even though I was directly taken back to laying in the snow and bleeding from my face... Once she hugged me and said her apoligies.... All was forgiven.

To the women who is still hurting so many years later, let go.

Jen, I'm positive that you did not hurt her physically and for whatever offense you may have caused you are genuinely apologetic. Enough said. Don't hang on to it and dont break yourself by trying to apologize over and over again. It is what it is and the past is that past.

Sorry for taking up so much of your blog space but I thought you should know that whatever you decide to do, YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR YOU.

Until next time.

Jenni

Gina B.

Ummm . . . you went to Bible Camp? :-)

Domestic Chicky

Poppy took the words right out of my mouth...

...and the girl MY friends and I used to bark at under our breath for some now-forgotten breach of high school social norms? Now is MY best friend...go figure.

Jeni

I was what some might refer to as "evil bitch" in HS.

Not too long ago, my mother met this girl who STILL hates me over some incident. I have no idea who she is or what this incident was. And I was in HS less than 10 years ago.

I already planned to skip the reunion.

Chrissy

Wow ... I feel for ya. That would suck to have basically scarred someone and you don't even remember who they are. Ouch. :o) But isn't Facebook amazing?? People I didn't really like in HS (but was always nice to) have turned into pretty cool people. It's been great to reconnect.

GOP Mommy

Badger Rocks!

Confession Time: I was a cheerleader, popular, mean girl in high school. I picked on people, but I was the picked-on one within the cheerleader group and a target in junior high. So the crap just runs downhill. I have never attended any function from high school (or been on Facebook) for the exact reason that this woman emailed you. I don't need to be confronted by my tormentees all Springer-style. I have NO intention to ever apologize either. Why? I am not that girl anymore. I am a happy, healthy, mom of two who has very good girlfriends and a great life. I have moved on, got on anti-depressants, sought therapy and drink wine. This woman needs to grow up and get over. Ann Veal is the New Bitter! Gheesh!

The funny thing is that high school and everyone's individual experiences of it only repeats itself in every school parking lot, PTA meeting, and mom's group. There are the mean girls, the wanna-bes, the hip moms, and the outcasts. Those of us who have been there, know the difference between adulthood and high school, and laugh at those chicks still playing the same old game. Those who have reached Maslow's pinnacle just stand on the sideline mock all over again. Bottom line, life goes on, gets better, gets worse, gets better again. We love, we lose, we GROW...well, most of us anyway. No need for an apology to this woman. She really needs to GROW!

BTW, hug your dogs for me today. We had to put our beloved Australian cattle hound, Zoee, of 13 years down yesterday. After my 19 month old son wandered the house this morning calling for "Zo Zo" I came here. The only thing that has made me smile today is your website. Thank you.

Sara

Everyone has "haterz". Don't sweat it. You're fabulous.

kcog25

Go back to Bible Camp! HAHA. This is hilarious. Get over it, lady...geez.

This is the first time I've commented here, but I've been keeping up with you since reading Bitter. Elated that you're coming to Houston on the book tour--I'll be there!

Chris

Yeah, but on the other hand, you're opinionated and sarcastic and your books are true stories of your life, which basically means you're getting paid just to exist.

I'd send her a check for $14.95 and an autographed photo (which may or may not include a rude gesture...I leave it up to you).

angela

It's funny that you mention Facebook and people from high school "friending" you and accepted it even if you hated them - I've had the same thing happen. In fact, one girl who was mean to me in junior high (she left me alone in high school) asked to be my friend, and I accepted...and she left me a very nice note on my page. I have to admit I almost didn't accept the "friend" request, but like you said, I have a feeling we are different people at 38 than we were at 12, so I decided not to be childish. Life is too short, and I hope nobody judges me based on how I was at 12. So Jen, I wouldn't worry about it - it's her issue, not yours. I think people shouldn't even be responsible for how they behave until they're at least 16, maybe even 18. Or 30. Ha

Ally B

At least somebody remembers you from high school! I live in the same place that I went to high school and I'll run into people on the street and they have NO IDEA who the hell I am... (and I graduated not-that-long-ago).

We all do stupid shit when we're young... the most you can do is say you're sorry and move on. Besides, if you really were mean to that woman... she probably deserved it.

Amy

I would never attend high school stuff at this point, and I almost always refuse friend requests on Facebook from people I went to high school with, but I'm not sitting here resenting people - I've just moved on & don't need to go back. Also my high school boyfriend was an abusive jackass that I never want to see again - so maybe I am still angry with him these many years later, but I think that's a little different!

That is sad that that poor woman is holding on to anger from being snubbed (possibly) by a 13-year-old.

Meg

I have to say I'm not sure where all this "Jen needs to apologize" stuff is coming from. I can be catty, but I generally remember my mean girl moments (and some them? still don't feel bad about them and would not take them back). If Jen really has no clue whatsoever, I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt that whatever started this couldn't have been bad enough to warrant the email she got and a grudge being held for 20+ years.

And really? Jen might not have actually done anything. There are a handful of people from my high school that I run into occasionally when I'm home visiting my parents who go out of their way to be nasty to me because they think I'm the biggest bitch ever because I a) went away to school (and a "name" school at that) and b) I didn't move back home after I graduated. People are weird.

gagi

Another woman had an issue with me a few years ago. She literally hated my guts. No matter what I tried to do, she tried to stand in the way. (This happened at church of all places.)

We actually had mediators with us. She went first and I just watched how broken she was and how she had misinterpreted everything I had said and done.

Instead of blasting her, I surprised myself by apologizing and asking her forgiveness. Whether or not I had done what she thought, she was incredibly torn up about it. We were never BFFs after that, but she stopped saying horrible things behind my back.

Dancemom1144

Yeah! Maybe she should write a "biiter" book!
She needs to let it gooooooo. I agree! She will buy your books and tell everyone she knew you and what an evil bitch you were! My mom always said that you should be worried when they are not talking about you!

People change. High school was okay and I don't remember being picked on much. I was preppy to a fault. The first three years of high school I wore a Lacoste shirt in my school pic. I too "moved freely between the tribes" and gave the most excellent parties that are still legendary. (My parents traveled on business a lot). I was nice to everyone. But I didn't have a lot of girl friends cuz girls are so mean and boys are just way more fun! I always liked to avoid drama. I had tons of friend-boys (thats what those of us who have teenagers call them now). Whenever I see them (much to the dismay of their skinny blonde wives) hug and kiss me and tell me how much they love me.

Now I have friends who refuse to go to anything high school related cuz they hated it. People do change! I talk to people on facebook and myspace that I never would have thought in a million years would talk to me.
My bff in grade school had a falling out and weren't friends again until we graduated college. We had both changed. We talk all the time. Infact she made me join facebook so I could play scrabble with her and now all kinds of people are friending me! People I never would have expected. And then there's this one chick who doesn't remember me! I don't know how she can't -- and I told her this since she stole my 7th grade boy friend from me. A favor really -- he was convinced that he was a vampire all of first and second grade. And she? She is still seriously weird. We don't talk.

I just wish that I had the self-confidence then or even in college that my 14 year old daughter has now. My life would have been totally different -- not that I'm unhappy -- but confidence is the key. She is going to love high school. I was surprised when I went to high school myself that it wasn't as bad as how TV or movies portrayed the picking on of kids especially lower classmen. But I am sure it wasn't a picnic for many. I like going to the reunions because I'm nosey and like to see and be seen!

Can't wait for the new book(s)!!!! You do make me nostaligic for the 80's!

Rose

Wow. That is a lot of anger to hold on to for 24 years. Not only did she say all of those things to her daughter but she made a point of contacting you to let you know. I hope she feels better now.

I was the target of a few "mean girls" in school and I'm sure I dished out my fair share over the years, too.

I went to my 20 yr HS reunion a couple of years ago and Romy and Michelle were pretty much dead on. I'm sure I'll never be BFFs with some of those girls but that's OK. I'm not wasting any time trying to convince them to love me now. I don't hate them. They don't really even register on my radar.

Shayne

I really love the people who hold onto stuff for 20 plus years...er, no, not really.

My favorite part of this whole saga is what a delightful role model that bitter bitch is for her 19 year old daughter! Way to go!!!! In the immortal words of Lit, "Only stupid people are breeding".

Whenever I run into old classmates, inevitably, they tell me that they thought I was a bitch in high school. This is usually from people who couldn't be bothered with me and I couldn't be bothered with. It used to bother me, now I just don't care. If 20 people in this world of millions don't like me, well they can just suck it.

duckmama

I choose not to be Facebook friends with anyone whom I am not already friends with or isn't a friend of a friend. I do know that I am different from my HS days and that they are all different, but seriously, to bring up anything from the past good or bad, just the past. So many other things to do and experience.

This girl just needed to make herself feel better. That's what lots of people do. Call people out to boost their own self esteem. Apologize and that will take the wind out of her sail. Then you wouldn't be the monster after all.

Genevieve

Get over it loser mommy, like, really.

lo

So, the note wasn't necessary. And I'm sure she'd be a happier, healthier adult if she had gotten over it earlier. But, I can only imagine what a sock to the gut it would be having your daughter accidentally bring back such terrible memories, out of the blue.

I'm also not sure someone can get on a high horse about getting over something in high school, when one is writing a book full of stories about people they hated ... in high school.

It looks like she needed some closure, and she wanted to vent her feelings. I think a little compassion and empathy (for the underdog in this story!), would be nice.

Domestic Goddess (In Training)

There is something to be said for people who are hurt so badly that it still burns 20 years later. My advice... be the mean one. The events disappear much faster for the mean one, not the meanee.

rebekah

Hahahahahahaahahaha..her?

It sucks that she's still got them, but they are HER cherished scars. Maybe it's how she defines herself - a survivor after multiple emotional wounds of the real and imagined kind. Good luck to her.

But for everybody like that, I'm sure you have plenty of people who tell you what a great/interesting/lovely impact you had.

Or at least that you made them laugh. A lot.

Liz B.

Her? Really?

Misty

I was the hyper sensitive and hung up type person, but I viewed life like you...I preferred to sit with the unfortunate and be friends with the one's who weren't so popular.

I also protected myself with bitchiness and left a few bad relationships and bruises behind. (Only when they came at me.)

But as I have grown older, I forgave and moved on, and there are so many that are either still striving to prove everyone that they weren't who they thought they were in HS or the one's who were supposed to be SUPER SUCCESSFUL, and are working the Taco B***s and managing the McD's in our areas...you'd be amazed.

That's okay though, I don't judge, we are all people so let's grow up and move on...our lives did, why didn't our hearts?

I say you are a doing fantastic Jen, keep up the great work! I'm an at home mom, writing my own blog...www.motherhoodramblings.blogspot.com...you should stop by sometime just to visit.

JS

There is a concept in the legal world that is, essentially, "you take your victims as you get them," meaning, that if you have a hyper-sensitive victim who is more injured than a regular person would be by your actions, you are stuck with compensating the hyper-sensitive person for the injuries you have inadvertantly inflicted even though a normal person wouldn't be as injured by your actions.

This appears to apply in the case of high school, where everyone was hyper-sensitive and every insult and injury was life-altering and potentially destructive to your social order, or so our hormone-addled brains thought back then.

This may be the case with this woman and I would apologize to her if I were you. Just my opinion.

I suffered my fair share of mean girl attitude directed at me and I got over it and moved on the second I was out of high school. And I am very proud that I was not a mean girl and also stood up for the underdogs even when it meant that I would also come in for additional ridicule for doing so.

But I have not forgotten the few girls who were the ringleaders. While I would never in a million years want to try to hold them accountable now (who cares, it was high school!!!), but I would probably find it hard to believe that they have altered very much from the mean person they were then. It seems rational to assume that the people who were mean in high school are the same people who are mean later in life, they have just learned how to hide it better because outright meanness just doesn't play so well in the adult world. This might be what the note-writer is getting at.

Cheers.

ashley catrett

Yeah, don't they teach forgiveness or something like that in bible camp? She needs to get over it; everyone got picked on in high school, its part of the experience. It helps toughen us up for when we get out of high school and get dropped on our asses like newborn giraffes. I think the that the reason she's so mad and went through all that trouble to contact you, is just because she's jealous. She's mad because someone that "possibly" picked on her 24 YEARS AGO is now a successfull author, which is really kind of funny. Its like she's randal and you're Jason Lee's character in Clerks 2. Still holding on to something that happened oh so long ago.
By the way, love your blog. Have been following it since day 1.

manda

About a year after I graduated high school, someone told me that she and her friends thought I was a snob because I never talked to them. Not like they ever approached me to talk to me...and I was a new girl in 9th grade, so really the ball was in their court as far as I'm concerned. I was sort of upset learning that people thought that about me, but you can't go back in time. I know I'm not a snob, and that's all that really matters. One thing that being an attorney has taught me: there are way too many crappy people in this world!!

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